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[lifetothefullest]

@lance.sweets | ■ ▲ ◌ ▼

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[lifetothefullest]

It isn't a question of intentions at this point. It's a question of priorities and why anyone here thinks they have a right to decide that they can force new arrivals to stay in the safehouse against their will, no matter what reason they have for it. If they're taking that as a personal attack, maybe they should examine why.

And I don't appreciate being accused of manufacturing a problem just because it looks new to everyone who's been content to just ignore it while they could. Do you really think no one has felt this way until now, or is it maybe that they've just been too scared to say it until they hear someone who's been here longer broach the subject first?

That's without even getting into the idea that objections are only acceptable if I bring some sort of perfectly laid out plan to whoever is in charge of this--it's still completely unclear--as though basic individuals' rights are something that have to be petitioned for.

[rehandle]

Put as simply as I can, the situation is as follows:

- El needs 4 days of access to our implants to fabricate a lifetime spent in this world, without which we can't live here.
- We need to keep the newcomers under watch for that duration for their own safety and the safety of others.
- The most practical means of doing that to date has been to house newcomers in the safehouse, where El needs us to work on our implants. It isn't comfortable, it isn't reassuring, but it was our base of operations when we didn't have the infrastructure we do now and for a time the closest thing we as a group had in this world to a home. We've always done our best to ensure there are people there to be with them and put them at whatever small ease we can manage for the time they're down there. Many efforts have been made to form welcome parties and redesign the space to make it less oppressive. We've always known that it isn't ideal, but it was what we had, and we’ve done our best to make it work.


Objections are fine. But as you may have noticed, airing grievances on the network isn't translating into meaningful change. And publicly regurgitating the same complaints over and over to minimal positive results without, for all anybody else knows, seeming to have started the process of effecting change comes across as putting the onus on somebody else.

And I for one have a life of my own, a business to maintain, a growing community to foster and support and regain the trust of, and a personal support system that I recently decimated. What I do not have is the wherewithal to project manage something on this scale, or to mediate bi-weekly combustions between you and Gaby until you stop doing whatever it is you're trying to do now and choose a more effective angle.

If we want El’s help we’re going to have to work to zeir specifications, but if we want to make changes to the way we live it’s our job as a group to come to those agreements. Which means speaking with like-minded people in constructive environments, offering suggestions that can be refined into propositions, then raising them to the group for discussion and adaptation. It’s not going to be straightforward and it won’t all fall into place on the first try, but I think you have more support for the point you’re making than you realize.

Somebody has to take the initiative to get things moving. I don’t see why it shouldn’t be you. You certainly have the passion for it.

[lifetothefullest]

It's that second step in the situation that the objection comes in; making that decision for other people is wrong. Not only that, but new arrivals who have had prior traumatic experiences, certain conditions, or the like can be negatively affected by this in a way that no one seems to be concerned about. I understand the reasons for why it's done this way, I just don't believe that the desire for everything to be as risk-free as possible in one area means the risks in different area should be ignored.

I was talking directly to new arrivals, and had already made plans to work with one on the issue before Clarke decided to step in. I can't figure out who agrees and who I should work with without talking to them, and do you really think that if I brought this up in another way, such as in a post on the network, that it would've gone over well? I tried talking to Ren and Nil about it a few weeks ago and they both acted like I was suggesting abandoning new arrivals in an alley or something. I expected any suggestion brought up in a more general way to go about as well, if not worse, considering the reception I usually get for even the most benign topics.

Besides, this is all assuming that it's possible to say or do anything about this at this point without accidentally angering Gaby again, and as much as everyone seems to believe otherwise, I'm not trying to make things harder on anyone. I'm not interested in being the reason everyone could end up in a worse situation, so as much as I hate that this is such a blatantly manipulative tactic that I can recognize exactly what it is, I don't have any real choice on how to respond to it. I don't really understand what anyone expects me to be doing at this point.

[He's also been on the verge of a total breakdown since before the Aerie, and so this is all very overwhelming and he really wasn't intending to be even this honest in this response, but sometimes that's how it goes. What's the worst that's going to happen, Stephen thinks less of him? Lance makes the situation worse? None of that can happen at this point.]

[rehandle]

The problem isn't that anyone disagrees with the core point you're making. Nobody's happy that our new arrivals may be left more traumatized by the steps we take to keep them safe. But without a viable, blended alternative to the current process in the mix and given how heated the discussion has become, it's easy to assume when you criticize our current system that you're arguing we ought to drop it and mitigate the risk you want highlighted instead of the risk we're already mitigating. It reads as one versus the other, not one plus the other, and what you're actually saying gets lost in the conflict that creates.

The other problem you're up against is that the network is where discourse goes to die a sudden, violent, and unprovoked death. It's useful logistically in times of crisis and it's beneficial for keeping us all connected to one another and El in an encrypted setting, but it has historically never been the place for meaningful public debate that doesn't run the risk of devolving into squabbling and miscommunication. There are too many of us with too many breadths of experience in this world, let alone in our own, for it to ever be a guaranteed place for civil discussion on important issues. It's the comments section on a local newspaper's unmoderated social media page, not a free and fair forum for discussion or an accurate representation of any one person or our collective point of view. You need to learn that now before you take it too much to heart. People have never been good at communicating online.

So you're right. The network is unforgiving, and it's hard to know where else to start when it seems to be everyone's go-to and is our most easily accessible source of shared information. What I would advise is speaking privately and in person with a group of people you can trust to share ideas with and work together to create a first draft of an alternative plan. Talk to the new arrivals, but do it in the safehouse or in private messages with those who've already engaged you, or wait until they have their IDs and invite them to a group. Then, when you have something that looks like a solid foundation, share that with the network. You'll be in a position to develop and adapt something new rather than criticize and poke holes in something old and that'll let you use the network as a feedback gathering tool rather than a space for discussion. There will be discussions regardless no doubt, and you may still get your share of hostility, but that's the nature of it. You won't have to argue because nothing's decided yet, and you can pick up on the people who are approaching you openly with suggestions for improvements and involve them in the next stage of the process. And so on.

You'll need to be open to ultimately creating something that blends everyone's concerns. It'll take time. As you're very well aware, there are many of us who have different priorities to you, and you're going to have to finds ways to work in tandem with rather than in opposition to them. Given that we all have the same ultimate desire, getting this done is far from impossible. But it'll be a big job, so if you decide to take it on you'll need people around you who you can trust both to look out for you and to hold you to account. Not because you're the only one prone to confrontation on the topic, but because at that stage your actions will reflect on the project in ways others' will not.

And to the last point, Gaby's threat has no power behind it. I've spoken with El, there's no intention there to cut us off. Gaby's been through the same thing we all have, and she's not equipped to handle this kind of drama now. That's all. You don't have to censor yourself for fear of repercussions on that end, but I do think it's as good a moment as any to change your approach and make an actual difference.

I'm happy to help where appropriate. But it's going to need somebody driving it to get it off the ground, and people who have the ability to invest actively in it to keep it growing, and it's up to you to decide whether you're ready to take that on.

[lifetothefullest]

[Although distantly annoyed by the parts of this that feel like a lecture, his natural reaction to be defensive is dampened by his mood and everything that's happened recently. So he's more easily able to look past it and try to focus on the actual points being made, rather than how they're being made, and not necessarily feel the need to fight what he feels are unfair assessments of expectations. It's not going to get him anywhere anyway, and he can recognize easily enough that Stephen's not actually trying to be combative, so there's no need to fight when it's not necessary. Especially not after what they've all been through.

Besides, as much as he'd theoretically like to argue some points, he can't. He realizes suddenly that, although he's extremely familiar with how conversations online tend to go, he's familiar with it at home; the way he views the network here, in contrast, he's been considering more like Hadriel's where discussion did often go somewhere even with how volatile the population was. But that was in Hadriel, not here, and he can't be expecting even something that simple to carry over, which is exhausting but just the reality of the situation. So Stephen's right, he has to change how he's thinking about it, and try to let it get to him a little less.

Of course, it's still easier said than done to try to figure out how he can talk to and worth with on problems if using the network is basically out, but fine. If that's the situation, it's the situation. He can deal with that.

And as for that part about what Gaby said, he doesn't really feel as strongly about it as he might've normally, but there's still a distinct sense of both anger and relief; more the latter than the former, though both are still there. It's incredibly good to know that it isn't a real threat he has hanging over him that he has to worry about, but it's also deeply upsetting that she would pull such a tactic knowing he wouldn't be willing to call the possible bluff.

But that's not something he's willing to get into even with himself right now, let alone with Stephen. So he tries to focus just on the point of what Stephen's saying overall, and how best to respond to it, even though that ends up being only simply--]

Okay. I'll look into how to better approach this going forward.

[That's about as much as he can promise right now.]

[rehandle]

[ It's a good deal more than he was expecting when Gaby first showed him the message she'd sent to Lance. The threat she'd made had been far from empty - she'd made the recommendation to El to withdraw support if the current situation continued. If El had been human and prone to the same tendency toward emotional response, the conversation couldn't have ended here, like this, with the hint of progress in its closing.

He'll happily take it. ]

I'll look forward to seeing what comes of it.

You're not on your own. If you need to discuss anything further, you know how to reach me.

[ And that's— where he runs out of purpose. He could carry this on, move it into the territory of their new shared history, but is now the time?

That doesn't seem like his call to make. He leaves it be. ]

[lifetothefullest]

[If it had just been that first comment, Lance probably would've left the conversation there and just been relieved that it hadn't gone as badly as it could've. He doesn't necessarily want to risk that changing by unnecessarily continuing the conversation.

But that comment about not being on his own stands out to him, both because that's something he rarely hears, and because it's just... Kind to say. Really, unexpectedly so, especially from someone he doesn't even generally get along with.

But it's also something he can't just accept and move on from without saying something about, considering everything that happened in the Aerie and the situation they're all dealing with now. So although there's a brief delay, he does decide to respond.]

You're not on your own either. It's understandable if you might want to withdraw to some extent after what happened, especially in the short term, but other than your own want for some space and time there's no need to remain isolated.

[It isn't wrong to want some time to process and readjust, but that's a completely different situation to thinking that he has to stay away from other people due to what happened. This whole thing is so complicated, but they all went through the Aerie and they're all having to deal with figuring out how to move on from it, and that includes Stephen and all the other people who don't just have to contend with their experiences, but with who they were.]

[rehandle]

[ It's not as unexpected as it perhaps ought to be coming from Lance, given their history even before the Aerie. You couldn't get as caught up on advocating for the mental well-being of incoming strangers as he does without being an inherently compassionate person. ]

That's good of you to say.

[ And true to a point. There's no need for him to stay away, nothing stopping him on the face of it. But... ]

But there's some due diligence owed before I start behaving like my public presence has no impact on the lives of anybody around me.

[ The work needs doing, so he'll do it. Speaking of, though what he asks is talking more around than about - ]

How are you holding up?

[lifetothefullest]

There is. And there are going to be people who are affected even if they might not want to be.

[In that they might recognize that what happened in the Aerie isn't necessarily fair to be holding against anyone, but logic and trauma don't always play together very well.

It's going to be a difficult line to find, for Stephen and for everyone else.

The next question is more direct than he really expected, considering how awkward pretty much everything about all their conversations have been, but it also makes sense; they're already speaking, and their relationship is already... Tumultuous. He's kind of a safe person to practice having this sort of conversation with, since there isn't much to lose.

The problem, on Lance's side, is deciding how honest to be. It's not like it wasn't obvious in the rest of their conversation that things aren't going well in general, so completely brushing off the question seems pointless, but he also doesn't want to get into anything really personal.]

I've been better, but it has less to do with the Aerie than with everything else.

[A truthful answer, for the most part, without adding any real details. But hopefully it'll reassure Stephen about the actual issue at hand--what happened between them in the Aerie--while still being able to avoid going too much into what's actually going on.]

[rehandle]

[ Precisely. And for him, and to a lesser degree certainly Lance (fighting against it from within or not, all who worked for the establishment were part of the establishment), that effect spans out beyond just people in their number and the small cast of natives who made up the fabric of their individual lives. Even counting out those he acted upon directly and to devastating effect, his involvement in the world of the Aerie spans centuries.

There are a lot of elements on the scale that he'll never really be able to balance. It is what it is. He'll take as good a shot at choosing his moments as he can.

It's not the kind of ethical debate they need to have now. ]

I'm not surprised. Stepping out of that and into this can't have been the world's most comforting not-quite-homecoming.

[ If there's one thing he can easily commiserate over with just about anybody, it's Displaced drama. Especially Displaced network drama, and he can only assume that's a large chunk of what Lance has been up against.

An odd disconnect in the ease of falling into this sort of conversation, the compartmentalisation of all the rest of it entirely effortless. ]

[lifetothefullest]

[This is definitely an easy conversation to fall into, and that's welcomed right now, especially after everything else that's just happened. External more than internal issues to focus on.]

The world was basically empty when I came back.

[It's not a correction so much as just clarification, because coming back to fighting on the network would've sucked but it would've been something... Familiar, he supposes. But instead he'd come back to basically nothing, and had spent the next several days trying to figure out how to help the other people returning, deal with the complete shutdown of society that had happened, and try to make sense of it all.

And then people had started to return, and--]

Did you catch up on what was found out about Henries?

[And then all the fighting about that, and the fighting about the fighting, and the lecturing about how someone could dare be focusing on that instead of the situation with people returning, as if some of them hadn't been dealing with it nonstop. And then now there's this, and it's so exhausting to be constantly trying to manage it all.]

[rehandle]

[ Oh. That's - uncomfortable to think about. Quarry participants waking alone on an empty planet. As if the circumstances hadn't been bad enough.

If it's unpleasant as a concept for him, he can't imagine it's much fun to recall as somebody who lived it. He doesn't dwell. ]

Yes. I've been filled in.

[ Tony first, and Jason not so long later. He's as up to date as he's going to be before Jimmy Henries himself comes calling. ]

I arrived back to Tony threatening to build a space ship, so while I'm sure I'll get around to reading all of whatever happened on the network eventually, I can only imagine it was a lot.

[ Which isn't quite the point. ]

It can be hard not to take it personally.

[lifetothefullest]

[He wants to ask if Tony really is trying to build a spaceship, because he saw talk about that--or hijacking Henries' ship, which seemed more appealing in Lance's opinion--but everyone pretty much went quiet after it became apparent they'd have to wait.

But that's also not really the point, even if he's not so sure he wants to let it veer back into more personal territory; there's only so much lamenting he can do before he's annoyed with himself, let alone other people are annoyed with him, which usually comes even faster. Still, he decides not deflect entirely, because Stephen's trying to help and right now Lance will take any hint of understanding that he can get.]

It'd be easier if it weren't personal.

[He can brush off people disagreeing, even if he's annoyed that they won't see what he usually feels are pretty clear issues if he's bringing them up. But it's hardly ever just that; it's almost always something personal on top of it, some insinuation--or outright accusation--about his motives, or some insult about what he's said or thought or what someone else thinks he thought.

He can pretty much guarantee if he says something even slightly controversial it'll turn into at least one person showing up to tell him how terrible he is, and there's only so long he can ignore and rationalize away that sort of thing before he starts to wonder if there's some merit to it.

But that's as far as he'll go on that, before he turns the conversation back.]

Is wherever you're staying livable? There was a lot of damage from the plants, and some of the infrastructure is down.

[rehandle]

[ He's not sure if there's a friendly way to pot, kettle him in reference to their original bone of contention without it coming across as a genuine dig, so maybe best to leave that alone. Instead, because he's been here more than enough times to have mostly learned from his own mistakes - ]

Comments section. Remind yourself of that as often as you can. It's easy to jump to conclusions when you're talking to pixels forming letters in your brain, even easier when the situation's fraught, there's ongoing trauma and being right is the only liferaft left. People say things they wouldn't to your face.

[ After that, he'll let the topic change take over. ]

Fortunately for me I live with a once internationally renowned engineer turned work-for-board handyman. We're doing alright. If you're struggling for anything, I hope you'll go to Red Wings.

[lifetothefullest]

[Right. Comments section. It's hard to reconcile even though they'd just talked about it because he would never use an actual comments section for anything at home, and here it's basically the main form of communication. Awful.

But okay. If he can keep that in mind it does help, and Stephen's right on his other points, so he's going to do his best. It might be a little more difficult for him than some other people because of various factors, but he's done much harder things than this.

So refocusing on the new topic--]

That's good. Kyna and I got lucky; aside from some overgrowth through the windows there wasn't much damage.

[And as for Red Wings, he appreciates the sentiment, but he thinks he'll be avoiding the place awhile as things settle down. No need to cause more trouble, but also no need to mention that.]

Now that everyone's returned, there's fortunately been less need to bring people to Red Wings for help, though the hospital is still really understaffed; you might've seen the post about that. I don't think they have anyone with much knowledge in your area of expertise, and therefore if you need something to do they might benefit from consulting with you--even from afar--if a patient with those needs comes in.

[Not to give Stephen work or anything, but a distraction that he could participate in without having to be involved in person might help. Hopefully, anyway.]

[rehandle]

I'm glad to hear it.

[ The topic shift is subtle enough that it's notable, but also that it doesn't bear mentioning or reading into too much. The conclusion is easy enough to reach, no need to chase after it. Besides, Lance is offering a focal point - not just in terms of the conversation, but in terms of grounding him in the distraction of the now.

It's a kindness. He won't spit at it. ]

Do you happen to know who took point in the end? Given the context of our conversation, I'm sure you won't be surprised to learn I avoided paying detailed attention to that particular discussion at the time.

If you don't know, don't go looking. I'm going to have to endure the network again eventually. It may as well be to do my own legwork.

[lifetothefullest]

[He'd thought Stephen might allow the topic shift, but he's relieved all the same not to be called out on it.]

Technically I believe Nicky was organizing, but Gene's also there.

[And so Lance had coordinated with him since he knows him better, which he imagines might be the same case for Stephen.]

As far as doctors go I think Julian was also involved, so he could be another potential person to talk to.

[rehandle]

Great. I'll see about getting in touch.

Thanks, Lance. It was good to speak with you.

[ And he means that exactly as he says it. Good to have an opportunity to talk, plainly and without either one of them reaching too blatantly for the high ground to the detriment of seeing something close to eye to eye. To get to know one another a little better, even if it was through the medium of a topic it's a wonder they hadn't yet exhausted.

Good also to be able to have a conversation, after everything. There are a good many more of them he'll need to have, but this one has been far from terrible. ]

[lifetothefullest]

[This is definitely not he he expected this conversation to end up, especially with how it started, but he'll take it. It's probably the best way it could've gone, and considering how bad everything has been for all of them lately, that's nothing short of miraculous.]

Yeah, you too. Let me know if there's anything you need.

[With dealing with all this, especially since he's not sure exactly how limited Stephen's support network is going to be at the moment.]