We know that's not what they're doing, right? And if it were, at least we'd know and be able to plan instead of just... arguing about what ifs for weeks on the network.
Do you really think anyone here is going to plan anything?
[The slightly scathing tone isn't directed at her, and that's hopefully clear by that his expression doesn't shift with the statement as it would if he were directing a comment like that at her.
But that said--]
I mean, knowing is something valuable, yes. It's just a matter of whether it's valuable enough to outweigh the risk and potential consequences, and it's too early to say that for sure.
[Kyna deflates, looking away again. She could argue that clearly there are some people who want to plan, like the group she worked with and Ian, but it doesn't feel like there's a point.]
[He frowns a little at that response, and more specifically at her reaction itself, trying to read what exactly prompted it. After a moment, he shifts topics slightly and decides to ask--]
You said you didn't tell anyone because Ren said not to, but why did he think you shouldn't and why did you agree?
Ren said that with that whole Judas deal, people were actively trying to sabotage each other. Like, really trying to fuck each other over. He was afraid that would happen again, you know? That if we came to everyone or word got out, someone would try to screw us over or make their own deal or something, and we'd get hurt.
[Which is the main thing, she thinks. She could tell that mess really stuck with Ren from the way he talked about it.]
Plus, he thinks the same thing you do—no one ever wants to plan, they just want to argue, and no one actually does anything.
[The general sentiment of that--that someone might tip off Riverstone--is what he expected, but there are details there that he didn't know. He furrows his eyebrows again and tilts his head, mentally putting some pieces together.]
I remember seeing a strange post by Stephen that I think was about the Judas situation, saying that he'd tipped off the UNA about something the Displaced were doing? I wasn't sure of the context.
[But he's guessing that might be one of things she's talking about, or she'll correct him. He doesn't remember seeing anything else in specific, but he'd only been able to look at the network; he wouldn't be surprised if people might've caused more problems in person.
So that makes sense, and also puts some things together for him as far as Ren's attitude in general, and he shifts on his feet idly.]
I'd counter by saying that not telling anyone who might disagree means it's very difficult to consider the potential ways it could go wrong, but then again I get that sometimes the other risks outweigh that benefit.
[And so he can see why they would've all kept this secret. He still doesn't like it on principle, because he thinks at least one of them should've considered this plan to be too much of a risk to everyone else to just go through with it anyway, but that's a separate issue.]
She didn't, but she also said the same thing we've been talking about: she wanted to do something, rather than talk about it and let the opportunity pass by.
[And although Lance doesn't agree with her choice either--and it also put the Displaced at risk, just like Kyna and Ren's group had--it's still fair to remember why Rey did what she did.
And speaking of that, and of Stephen too--]
I actually had a brief discussion with Stephen about how it would be better to prevent people from feeling like they have to task drastic action by trying to make more progress in general, but it basically came down to 'we don't have time for that'.
[And again, the priorities here seem very... Skewed, for many people, not just Stephen.]
[It's true. In a weird way, Kyna respects Rey's decision to do something more than the people who haven't done anything at all. She scoffs at the comment about Stephen, though.]
Funding for a team of people who can devote their time and energy to working on following leads, coming up with projects, that sort of thing instead of also having to worry about having jobs.
[Hey don't give him that look, it's not his idea; he raises his hands a little in a gesture of surrender.]
I know. Making some sort of progress, or at least trying to do so, is the only way we're going to take any sort of control over this situation instead of just reacting to it.
[He's just going to give her a moment to see if she decides to elaborate unprompted; he has maybe a guess at what she means, but still would rather not influence her response especially if he's wrong.]
[He can't help it that his immediate reaction is defensive, but that's more a reflex than anything else and it's in direct contrast to that this was--more or less anyway--the answer he's expecting. It's not the first time he's heard that criticism, and although he's usually pretty good at avoiding behavior he's been made aware of he's also well aware that he hasn't exactly been on top of that sort of thing lately.
So he takes a moment to be sure he can respond that way he means to, finally shoving his hands in his pockets and sighing again.]
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:25 am (UTC)[The slightly scathing tone isn't directed at her, and that's hopefully clear by that his expression doesn't shift with the statement as it would if he were directing a comment like that at her.
But that said--]
I mean, knowing is something valuable, yes. It's just a matter of whether it's valuable enough to outweigh the risk and potential consequences, and it's too early to say that for sure.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:31 am (UTC)I guess not.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:42 am (UTC)You said you didn't tell anyone because Ren said not to, but why did he think you shouldn't and why did you agree?
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 02:54 am (UTC)[Which is the main thing, she thinks. She could tell that mess really stuck with Ren from the way he talked about it.]
Plus, he thinks the same thing you do—no one ever wants to plan, they just want to argue, and no one actually does anything.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:23 am (UTC)I remember seeing a strange post by Stephen that I think was about the Judas situation, saying that he'd tipped off the UNA about something the Displaced were doing? I wasn't sure of the context.
[But he's guessing that might be one of things she's talking about, or she'll correct him. He doesn't remember seeing anything else in specific, but he'd only been able to look at the network; he wouldn't be surprised if people might've caused more problems in person.
So that makes sense, and also puts some things together for him as far as Ren's attitude in general, and he shifts on his feet idly.]
I'd counter by saying that not telling anyone who might disagree means it's very difficult to consider the potential ways it could go wrong, but then again I get that sometimes the other risks outweigh that benefit.
[And so he can see why they would've all kept this secret. He still doesn't like it on principle, because he thinks at least one of them should've considered this plan to be too much of a risk to everyone else to just go through with it anyway, but that's a separate issue.]
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:36 am (UTC)[Which is obvious, she thinks.]
Plus, it's not like Rey wanted to listen to us.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:42 am (UTC)[And although Lance doesn't agree with her choice either--and it also put the Displaced at risk, just like Kyna and Ren's group had--it's still fair to remember why Rey did what she did.
And speaking of that, and of Stephen too--]
I actually had a brief discussion with Stephen about how it would be better to prevent people from feeling like they have to task drastic action by trying to make more progress in general, but it basically came down to 'we don't have time for that'.
[And again, the priorities here seem very... Skewed, for many people, not just Stephen.]
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:48 am (UTC)So he doesn't care?
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:49 am (UTC)[And okay, it might be being a little unfair to put it this way without context, but it's still true.]
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 03:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 04:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 04:02 am (UTC)Having a team of people isn't going to make everyone feel less cornered.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 04:45 am (UTC)I know. Making some sort of progress, or at least trying to do so, is the only way we're going to take any sort of control over this situation instead of just reacting to it.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 05:02 am (UTC)That's what we were trying to do. Make progress. Take control.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-31 05:06 am (UTC)[And it tempers some of his irritation about the situation, but not all of it.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:11 am (UTC)I hope the experience hasn't scared you off of telling anyone else.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:12 am (UTC)Um... maybe a little.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:15 am (UTC)You expected that I wouldn't exactly be happy about this, right?
[Considering how she'd approached the conversation and all.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:19 am (UTC)[She gestures vaguely.]
You know.
[Which is a very helpful response.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:25 am (UTC)God, okay, don't get mad. Just...
[How does she say this? Before she even opens her mouth again, she's wincing, but she spits it out anyway.]
Dismissive? Kind of condescending?
no subject
Date: 2020-11-01 12:33 am (UTC)So he takes a moment to be sure he can respond that way he means to, finally shoving his hands in his pockets and sighing again.]
I can't exactly argue with that.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: