That... Seems less like an anger problem and more like very justified anger.
[Although the revenge part of that whole story is... Not great, but it's also very different from what is normally falls under anger issues.
He's quiet another few moments, watching Ephemera's reaction.]
You're here.
[He confirms the statement, crossing his arms, though the gesture is more for his own benefit than a reaction to anything Ephemera said or did. He just finds the situation distressing, both due to feeling for Ephemera and in thinking about how he'd react if some of the less than pleasant people from his world showed up here. How would he handle it?]
You're right in that killing him is not an option here.
[He'd like to say it's not an option anywhere, but he's not even going to try getting into that argument.]
As frustrating and unsatisfying though it might be, your best course of action in this place is to act like he doesn't exist. You're not going to gain anything by speaking to--or fighting with, or doing whatever else to--him.
[It helps that Sweets agrees with him. Like it's not so fucking irrational to want Washington and the others dead for what they fucking did. Ephemera touches his knuckles to his mouth briefly, watching Sweets.]
[Well, at least he's already crossing his arms, so he doesn't have to do that. But he does fix Ephemera with a look that's somewhere between incredulous and disapproving, even if he appreciates him being honest.]
All since he arrived?
[Or does this include back in their world?
Also he'll just... Get to how bad that all is in a moment.]
[He believes that with everything in him. There had been a deep and awful satisfaction in killing the men who'd hurt the twins, back in the day. But that had been final. What they'd done was punished and the survivors moved on.
Here, Washington wouldn't stay dead.]
My family and I, we burned some fuckers once. Covered them in gas, let them cook in their armor. Boom.
[He lifts his chin slightly, watching Sweets. Daring him to argue.]
They had it coming, for what they fucking did. And Washington--
[Hnn. Ephemera bares his teeth.]
He killed them clean. I'd kill him if it would matter, but it won't. And I don't burn people who don't deserve it.
[He wishes he could muster up the shock and horror that those statements warrant, but he can't. At this point he's just accepting that everyone in this place is a mess and it's not like anyone is going to listen to him telling them they're wrong, so it isn't worth the effort to bother.
But he doesn't bother hiding that he disapproves, eyes narrowing and arms crossing more tightly against his chest, but he decides to just ignore the entire thing completely. There's no point in arguing about it, and he's sure Ephemera gets the sense that Lance doesn't at all condone those actions.]
All of that is completely irrelevant. He won't stay dead here, so you're going to have to handle his presence in a different way.
[Ephemera watches Sweets and nods just once. The disapproval is clear, but Sweets doesn't say a word. Not about the fire, at least. But if he'd been there, Ephemera feels confident that Sweets wouldn't have stopped them. There are lines that human beings aren't meant to cross, things that he wouldn't have even done to Washington, that were done to his brother and sister. And they had to be answered, there had to be retribution.
Sometimes, the only response to cruelty is to meet it.]
Yeah.
[His voice is calmer now.]
I don't know how. Thought you could help with that.
[At least Ephemera seems to agree on his latest statement, so Lance tries to focus on the matter at hand rather than everything else he's just heard.]
I can, at least in regards to helping you choose a plan of action and in methods of handling the mental and emotional effects of dealing with his presence. However, it will be up to you to decide whether you're willing to follow through with them.
[Especially because it there isn't going to be any sort of miracle fix for this situation. It's going to be unpleasant all around, and he doesn't doubt Ephemera will be tempted to resort to more familiar methods.]
[And it's Ephemera's house anyway. Besides, although it's not exactly a habit Lance encourages, there are far worse ways to calm ones nerves than a cigarette; assuming that's what he means, anyway.]
[Cool. Ephemera has a packet and lighter resting on the sink already. He tries not to smoke when he's painting, but he doesn't have any ash trays. That leaves the sink and all his paints, the murals drying heavy on the walls. He lights one and inhales deeply, letting the nicotine hit.
It helps a little. The clarity of it. Different from the feeling he gets when he paints. Sharper, somehow.]
When I'm here, I know it won't matter. Killing him.
[He exhales sharply, cigarette held loosely between two fingers.]
But then I look at him, and I see my family. They're dead and he's here. That's not fucking fair. And I know. I know. Shit's not fair. I get that.
[He's quiet a moment.]
It won't matter if I kill him or not. They're still gone. But I was angry for a long time. It kept me going. And I don't know how to let it go.
[Lance shifts on his feet, still a bit agitated about this entire thing, but he's beginning to calm down a bit as well; he listens to what Ephemera says, and it's encouraging.]
You're right, about all of that.
[And it's nice that he's so self-aware of not only his own feelings but the overall situation, because it means they can skip right to the important and difficult part of how to handle things. And Lance is quiet a moment, considering options and what to say next, before finally speaking again.]
Letting go of your anger is easier said than done, but the most important thing to remember is that it's about what's best for you. Choosing not to be angry, or to focus your energy and attention on him, doesn't mean what he did is okay or that you forgive him; it means you're not allowing him or his actions to have any further control over your life.
[Ephemera takes a deep breath and holds it for a minute, letting the nicotine do it's thing. Focusing on that and not the thought of Washington and his smug fucking tone at the temple. He has to let it go. There's no living here if he can't let it go. And then he exhales. Watches the smoke curl.]
Yeah. All right.
[Because this is after. What he'd been planning for years can't play out here.]
Don't think I can forgive him. Any of those fuckers. My family--
[He sucks in a sharp breath. It hurts, even now. Years later, it hurts like it just happened.]
They were all I had. Only family I ever had. Think I went crazy for a while, after. But here -- I got people here. And if I fuck up, it falls back on them. I don't want that.
[He wants to make that clear again; it's important.]
Some psychologists advise trying to do so, but it's much more about choosing to let go of the anger and the connection it creates between you than anything about what was done being acceptable. While I agree with the general idea, I find calling it 'forgiveness' to be inaccurate and sometimes unhelpful.
[Because a lot of people can't move on if they feel like they have to deem the actions 'forgiven', and even if they want to do so they often feel guilt over the idea, like they're letting down whoever was wronged. So Lance prefers to put it in terms of freeing oneself from wasting any more of their life on someone who did something horrible to them.]
Thinking about the potential consequences and how it relates to people you care about is good; that's going to be a good motivator. Ultimately, the people you care for are far more important than someone who's wronged you. Remembering that, whenever you've tempted to get into an altercation, will be you best tactic.
[But, for a more satisfying motivation that he thinks Ephemera might also enjoy--]
It also really bothers those kinds of people if you treat them like they're utterly unimportant. Just a side benefit.
[It's good advice, Ephemera supposes. Think about the people who are still alive, the ones he wants to look after here and now. His family is gone and that hurts. It's probably going to hurt for a long time. But they're gone and the friends he has right now, in Hadriel, they're standing right next to him.
He can do right by them.
The last part gives him pause, though. Ephemera snorts, taking another drag.]
You wanna know something fucked up? They didn't even know who I was.
[Carolina and Washington. They hadn't known until he'd told them.]
I made them remember.
[Made them hurt for forgetting.
He's quiet for a moment.]
Washington. He asked their names. When he showed up here. He wanted to know their names. I don't know why he did that.
[Lance feels like there's a lot of context he's missing here, but he's of course aware that some people don't actually bother to know the names of those they murder. It's most common when they're killing on large scales, which is... Not a good sign.
He also makes mental note of the name Washington as someone to be very cautious around, before responding to what Ephemera said.]
There could be several different reasons.
[Some better than others. Still, ultimately--]
But does it matter? Do you think you'll gain anything from knowing?
[He doesn't tell Sweets about the sketches, about the way Washington looked when Ephemera gave him the book. It feels too raw and this moment is edging onto something sharp, that Ephemera doesn't think he can control. This is supposed to be about finding a new way to do things. Not about getting stuck in the past.]
Then don't bother. Remind yourself, whenever you see him or think about him being here, that he isn't worth it; you don't want to know anything about him, and you have far more important people and things to focus on.
[It'll be easier said than done, by far, but it'll also get easier with time.]
[Ephemera takes another drag, holding it a moment before exhaling. Think of the important people. The ones who matter. And don't think about Washington at all.
[He's being honest; just how honest to be versus how much hope to try to inspire is one of those things that individual psychologists differ on, and comes down to a judgement call. But Lance thinks it's important to be clear that sometimes the best solution is the most challenging one, because it doesn't create a false impression. It also means someone is less likely to give up the first time they--almost inevitably--mess up.]
Like most other things, it'll take practice and concentration, and it'll be difficult. But, ultimately, it'll be worth it.
[He's usually more careful to hide it, but it might be easy enough to tell that he's speaking from experience.]
[He shifts on his feet again a little, of course noticing Ephemera watching him, but he nods in acknowledgement.]
It's important to know that you might not succeed at first, or some other times even after you've been managing for awhile. That doesn't mean you're failing, or that you should stop trying.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 01:50 am (UTC)That... Seems less like an anger problem and more like very justified anger.
[Although the revenge part of that whole story is... Not great, but it's also very different from what is normally falls under anger issues.
He's quiet another few moments, watching Ephemera's reaction.]
You're here.
[He confirms the statement, crossing his arms, though the gesture is more for his own benefit than a reaction to anything Ephemera said or did. He just finds the situation distressing, both due to feeling for Ephemera and in thinking about how he'd react if some of the less than pleasant people from his world showed up here. How would he handle it?]
You're right in that killing him is not an option here.
[He'd like to say it's not an option anywhere, but he's not even going to try getting into that argument.]
As frustrating and unsatisfying though it might be, your best course of action in this place is to act like he doesn't exist. You're not going to gain anything by speaking to--or fighting with, or doing whatever else to--him.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 02:33 am (UTC)Tried that. Didn't work.
[Might as well be brutally honest.]
Also I shot him. And set him on fire.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 02:43 am (UTC)All since he arrived?
[Or does this include back in their world?
Also he'll just... Get to how bad that all is in a moment.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 02:55 am (UTC)[He doesn't really want to talk about what when down on Chorus.]
He lived. He's fine.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 07:36 pm (UTC)And did any of that accomplish anything?
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 08:25 pm (UTC)He was on fire.
[There's some satisfaction in that. There has to be. Ephemera runs a hand through his hair unhappily.]
Thought it'd feel better than it did.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 09:44 pm (UTC)[But most people find that harming someone else doesn't help themselves feel any better, even if it seems like it would make things right.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 10:04 pm (UTC)Would've. If I killed him.
[He believes that with everything in him. There had been a deep and awful satisfaction in killing the men who'd hurt the twins, back in the day. But that had been final. What they'd done was punished and the survivors moved on.
Here, Washington wouldn't stay dead.]
My family and I, we burned some fuckers once. Covered them in gas, let them cook in their armor. Boom.
[He lifts his chin slightly, watching Sweets. Daring him to argue.]
They had it coming, for what they fucking did. And Washington--
[Hnn. Ephemera bares his teeth.]
He killed them clean. I'd kill him if it would matter, but it won't. And I don't burn people who don't deserve it.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 10:17 pm (UTC)But he doesn't bother hiding that he disapproves, eyes narrowing and arms crossing more tightly against his chest, but he decides to just ignore the entire thing completely. There's no point in arguing about it, and he's sure Ephemera gets the sense that Lance doesn't at all condone those actions.]
All of that is completely irrelevant. He won't stay dead here, so you're going to have to handle his presence in a different way.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 10:46 pm (UTC)Sometimes, the only response to cruelty is to meet it.]
Yeah.
[His voice is calmer now.]
I don't know how. Thought you could help with that.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 11:11 pm (UTC)I can, at least in regards to helping you choose a plan of action and in methods of handling the mental and emotional effects of dealing with his presence. However, it will be up to you to decide whether you're willing to follow through with them.
[Especially because it there isn't going to be any sort of miracle fix for this situation. It's going to be unpleasant all around, and he doesn't doubt Ephemera will be tempted to resort to more familiar methods.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 11:16 pm (UTC)[There's no easy fix to this. Ephemera exhales sharply.]
You mind if I smoke?
[It calms him down. Keeps him centered in the moment.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 11:27 pm (UTC)Sure, it doesn't bother me.
[And it's Ephemera's house anyway. Besides, although it's not exactly a habit Lance encourages, there are far worse ways to calm ones nerves than a cigarette; assuming that's what he means, anyway.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-13 11:48 pm (UTC)It helps a little. The clarity of it. Different from the feeling he gets when he paints. Sharper, somehow.]
When I'm here, I know it won't matter. Killing him.
[He exhales sharply, cigarette held loosely between two fingers.]
But then I look at him, and I see my family. They're dead and he's here. That's not fucking fair. And I know. I know. Shit's not fair. I get that.
[He's quiet a moment.]
It won't matter if I kill him or not. They're still gone. But I was angry for a long time. It kept me going. And I don't know how to let it go.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-14 09:16 pm (UTC)You're right, about all of that.
[And it's nice that he's so self-aware of not only his own feelings but the overall situation, because it means they can skip right to the important and difficult part of how to handle things. And Lance is quiet a moment, considering options and what to say next, before finally speaking again.]
Letting go of your anger is easier said than done, but the most important thing to remember is that it's about what's best for you. Choosing not to be angry, or to focus your energy and attention on him, doesn't mean what he did is okay or that you forgive him; it means you're not allowing him or his actions to have any further control over your life.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-14 10:03 pm (UTC)Yeah. All right.
[Because this is after. What he'd been planning for years can't play out here.]
Don't think I can forgive him. Any of those fuckers. My family--
[He sucks in a sharp breath. It hurts, even now. Years later, it hurts like it just happened.]
They were all I had. Only family I ever had. Think I went crazy for a while, after. But here -- I got people here. And if I fuck up, it falls back on them. I don't want that.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 12:19 am (UTC)[He wants to make that clear again; it's important.]
Some psychologists advise trying to do so, but it's much more about choosing to let go of the anger and the connection it creates between you than anything about what was done being acceptable. While I agree with the general idea, I find calling it 'forgiveness' to be inaccurate and sometimes unhelpful.
[Because a lot of people can't move on if they feel like they have to deem the actions 'forgiven', and even if they want to do so they often feel guilt over the idea, like they're letting down whoever was wronged. So Lance prefers to put it in terms of freeing oneself from wasting any more of their life on someone who did something horrible to them.]
Thinking about the potential consequences and how it relates to people you care about is good; that's going to be a good motivator. Ultimately, the people you care for are far more important than someone who's wronged you. Remembering that, whenever you've tempted to get into an altercation, will be you best tactic.
[But, for a more satisfying motivation that he thinks Ephemera might also enjoy--]
It also really bothers those kinds of people if you treat them like they're utterly unimportant. Just a side benefit.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 12:50 am (UTC)He can do right by them.
The last part gives him pause, though. Ephemera snorts, taking another drag.]
You wanna know something fucked up? They didn't even know who I was.
[Carolina and Washington. They hadn't known until he'd told them.]
I made them remember.
[Made them hurt for forgetting.
He's quiet for a moment.]
Washington. He asked their names. When he showed up here. He wanted to know their names. I don't know why he did that.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 01:40 am (UTC)He also makes mental note of the name Washington as someone to be very cautious around, before responding to what Ephemera said.]
There could be several different reasons.
[Some better than others. Still, ultimately--]
But does it matter? Do you think you'll gain anything from knowing?
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 01:54 am (UTC)[He doesn't tell Sweets about the sketches, about the way Washington looked when Ephemera gave him the book. It feels too raw and this moment is edging onto something sharp, that Ephemera doesn't think he can control. This is supposed to be about finding a new way to do things. Not about getting stuck in the past.]
I don't want to know anything about him.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 02:00 am (UTC)Then don't bother. Remind yourself, whenever you see him or think about him being here, that he isn't worth it; you don't want to know anything about him, and you have far more important people and things to focus on.
[It'll be easier said than done, by far, but it'll also get easier with time.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 02:12 am (UTC)It's worth a shot.]
That simple, huh?
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 02:20 am (UTC)[He's being honest; just how honest to be versus how much hope to try to inspire is one of those things that individual psychologists differ on, and comes down to a judgement call. But Lance thinks it's important to be clear that sometimes the best solution is the most challenging one, because it doesn't create a false impression. It also means someone is less likely to give up the first time they--almost inevitably--mess up.]
Like most other things, it'll take practice and concentration, and it'll be difficult. But, ultimately, it'll be worth it.
[He's usually more careful to hide it, but it might be easy enough to tell that he's speaking from experience.]
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 02:33 am (UTC)You're honest.
[Didn't say it would be easy.]
I appreciate that.
no subject
Date: 2017-10-15 03:11 am (UTC)It's important to know that you might not succeed at first, or some other times even after you've been managing for awhile. That doesn't mean you're failing, or that you should stop trying.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: