[ then what comes next seems sincere. it's not a cut or a dig, but something that he noticed since their argument about the safehouse. ]
You never seemed to trust my opinion before. Are you going to start with this?
[ that was part of it: new people arriving and not trusting the experiences of the other people who had been here. Lance basing his opinion on what he deems "worth it" or "not worth it." ]
[He makes the clarification evenly; it's important to say, but likewise it's sincere and not an attempt to make a jab.]
I can't promise you that I won't again, but that doesn't mean I'm not genuinely interested in what you think.
[It's one of those things that he has trouble explaining sometimes, that he can disagree on something but still genuinely understand and value the other person's insight and opinions. But going back to their discussion on conviction, if the issue is something he's completely in opposition on--like the safehouse thing--for an important reason, then no amount of respect for their opinion is going to change his.
He doesn't see that being much of a problem in this situation, and although that means he could've just agreed and been done with, he decides it's worth making this clear.]
I don't care if you disagree. I said trust. Don't mix those up.
[ it comes out firm. his dark eyes narrowing. there's an intensity inside of him that hides behind his stony expression that comes through in his eyes.
it had come off as controlling—just how Maruki had been controlling. even with good intentions, Maruki had already decided what was the best kind of circumstance for everyone. it had stripped them of autonomy, even of Maruki wanted nothing more than them to be happy, by belittling how they were coping with their own experiences. Lance reminds him of the same, dismissing people, and their own experiences, in favor of his opinions. ]
They were expecting us to do something. Since more people didn't stand up, there was a message sent. [ there's a pause. ] But even with the handful of people who came with me, we were able to surprise them.
I think you and I have very different understandings of what we consider 'trust'.
[Because trusting someone's opinion, to him, means being willing to believe they're right even if his own experience and intuition tell him otherwise. That's incredibly rare for him, and not something he does lightly, especially not when it's someone he barely knows and has disagreed with more often than not.
That's also vastly different from respecting someone else's opinion, or believing they may have good intentions even if they're getting there a different way, which have categories of their own. He's not entirely sure how Ren's using the trust here, but he's pretty certain it's not how Lance is.
But either way, he nods in thought at the rest of what Ren says, clarifying--]
Since more people didn't stand up in which respect, agreeing to the tests or doing something to oppose them?
[ to him, they're all in the same situation. to some extent, it ties them all together. for Ren it meant putting aside the personal investment with being right or wrong, and pulling from experiences. it seemed that Lance was able to brush off others experiences for his own, and it strikes an odd—adultish—chord for him. ]
Yeah, it looks like we do.
[ closer, again, to Maruki that's comfortable. they'll have to agree to disagree on that for now, as this was about Riverstone now. ]
Doing something other than going along with their front of experiments. You can take the cautious road, but they've probably caught on already. I don't want to keep acting like the world isn't continuing around us, like it doesn't notice our choices.
[Lance decides not to say any of the things he's currently thinking of, because he doesn't really think any of what he'd most like to bring up would go anywhere. Instead, he contemplates how to continue, finally deciding on--]
So what now, then? How do you think that, with everything we know now, we should proceed?
[ there's a quiet pause, and Ren looks somewhat contemplative. then, he says: ]
We turn it around. Riverstone wants us for a reason.
[ they're valuable for a reason, right? not just Riverstone, Cassius, and Grey, they all are entangled in a web of push and pull because everyone wants something from them. ]
Whoever's up for it, we need to refine our powers, and learn how to take control of our dreams. If there's a big dream with everyone in it—then we need to find out if we can tap into that.
Leveraging our position, and whatever value we have, can be very effective. But, and I'm sure I'm sounding like a broken record at this point, it has to be done carefully because it can easily backfire. Especially since Riverstone knows we're aware of their actual interests, beyond just our powers.
[And it's a lot more difficult to manipulate people who are aware of it, which goes both directions; with the Displaced aware of Riverstone's intentions, it's difficult for Riverstone to twist things to their benefit. But, in reverse, it's also very difficult for the Displaced to try to use that implied value when Riverstone knows they're aware of the truth.]
But I agree, in the sense of practicing our powers and trying to better control dreams, especially since the latter seem to have very real and potentially widespread effect. The more we can do with them, the better.
[ isn't that what was argued in that post? they didn't have "proof" that Riverstone was underhanded. they do now, he doesn't regret that. ]
We're not going to win a game they've already rigged. Politics, paperwork—they've got the upperhand in all of that. We need to work where our strengths are. That's our powers, and the dreams.
[ and ok, that's kinda messing things up. but heeeey. ]
[He's not going to bother arguing on the first part, since he doesn't think it'll get anywhere, so instead he focuses on the second.]
It's also our experiences. There are some--or many--ways that being from other worlds puts us at a disadvantage here, but there are others were it's the opposite. We have a wider range of experiences, knowledge, and ways of thinking than could be found in people from only one world; some of that isn't useful, or may even be detrimental, but not all of it. It's also an advantage that, even if Riverstone or anyone else actually knew about, they still couldn't predict.
[ this isn't the Phantom Thieves, he knows that. there's a distinction between him and Lance, and him and the rest of the group that had put themselves on the line for social reform.
part of moving past something was knowing your position.
there's a quiet, even tone to his voice. he thinks of what Clarke's told him, of Cassius and Judas, and then Grey taking constant advantage of their position. ]
It makes us predictable now. To use that experience, we would need to make sure that the result doesn't depend on a handful of people. We don't need to unite, but we need to a level of trust. Not just in each other, but in the regular people of this world.
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lifetothefullest) wrote2019-08-25 08:38 pm
no subject
You never seemed to trust my opinion before. Are you going to start with this?
[ that was part of it: new people arriving and not trusting the experiences of the other people who had been here. Lance basing his opinion on what he deems "worth it" or "not worth it." ]
no subject
[He makes the clarification evenly; it's important to say, but likewise it's sincere and not an attempt to make a jab.]
I can't promise you that I won't again, but that doesn't mean I'm not genuinely interested in what you think.
[It's one of those things that he has trouble explaining sometimes, that he can disagree on something but still genuinely understand and value the other person's insight and opinions. But going back to their discussion on conviction, if the issue is something he's completely in opposition on--like the safehouse thing--for an important reason, then no amount of respect for their opinion is going to change his.
He doesn't see that being much of a problem in this situation, and although that means he could've just agreed and been done with, he decides it's worth making this clear.]
no subject
[ it comes out firm. his dark eyes narrowing. there's an intensity inside of him that hides behind his stony expression that comes through in his eyes.
it had come off as controlling—just how Maruki had been controlling. even with good intentions, Maruki had already decided what was the best kind of circumstance for everyone. it had stripped them of autonomy, even of Maruki wanted nothing more than them to be happy, by belittling how they were coping with their own experiences. Lance reminds him of the same, dismissing people, and their own experiences, in favor of his opinions. ]
They were expecting us to do something. Since more people didn't stand up, there was a message sent. [ there's a pause. ] But even with the handful of people who came with me, we were able to surprise them.
no subject
[Because trusting someone's opinion, to him, means being willing to believe they're right even if his own experience and intuition tell him otherwise. That's incredibly rare for him, and not something he does lightly, especially not when it's someone he barely knows and has disagreed with more often than not.
That's also vastly different from respecting someone else's opinion, or believing they may have good intentions even if they're getting there a different way, which have categories of their own. He's not entirely sure how Ren's using the trust here, but he's pretty certain it's not how Lance is.
But either way, he nods in thought at the rest of what Ren says, clarifying--]
Since more people didn't stand up in which respect, agreeing to the tests or doing something to oppose them?
no subject
Yeah, it looks like we do.
[ closer, again, to Maruki that's comfortable. they'll have to agree to disagree on that for now, as this was about Riverstone now. ]
Doing something other than going along with their front of experiments. You can take the cautious road, but they've probably caught on already. I don't want to keep acting like the world isn't continuing around us, like it doesn't notice our choices.
no subject
So what now, then? How do you think that, with everything we know now, we should proceed?
no subject
We turn it around. Riverstone wants us for a reason.
[ they're valuable for a reason, right? not just Riverstone, Cassius, and Grey, they all are entangled in a web of push and pull because everyone wants something from them. ]
Whoever's up for it, we need to refine our powers, and learn how to take control of our dreams. If there's a big dream with everyone in it—then we need to find out if we can tap into that.
no subject
[And it's a lot more difficult to manipulate people who are aware of it, which goes both directions; with the Displaced aware of Riverstone's intentions, it's difficult for Riverstone to twist things to their benefit. But, in reverse, it's also very difficult for the Displaced to try to use that implied value when Riverstone knows they're aware of the truth.]
But I agree, in the sense of practicing our powers and trying to better control dreams, especially since the latter seem to have very real and potentially widespread effect. The more we can do with them, the better.
no subject
[ isn't that what was argued in that post? they didn't have "proof" that Riverstone was underhanded. they do now, he doesn't regret that. ]
We're not going to win a game they've already rigged. Politics, paperwork—they've got the upperhand in all of that. We need to work where our strengths are. That's our powers, and the dreams.
[ and ok, that's kinda messing things up. but heeeey. ]
no subject
It's also our experiences. There are some--or many--ways that being from other worlds puts us at a disadvantage here, but there are others were it's the opposite. We have a wider range of experiences, knowledge, and ways of thinking than could be found in people from only one world; some of that isn't useful, or may even be detrimental, but not all of it. It's also an advantage that, even if Riverstone or anyone else actually knew about, they still couldn't predict.
no subject
[ this isn't the Phantom Thieves, he knows that. there's a distinction between him and Lance, and him and the rest of the group that had put themselves on the line for social reform.
part of moving past something was knowing your position.
there's a quiet, even tone to his voice. he thinks of what Clarke's told him, of Cassius and Judas, and then Grey taking constant advantage of their position. ]
It makes us predictable now. To use that experience, we would need to make sure that the result doesn't depend on a handful of people. We don't need to unite, but we need to a level of trust. Not just in each other, but in the regular people of this world.